In this edition, J. Camps and NYC Rob share a few thoughts on traditional dating practices. It begins with Mr. Campbell questioning why we still practice what he calls "outdated" dating protocol, and it ends with Mr. Campbell desperately trying to defend himself from NYC Rob's accusations of sexism. Wanna know how we got there? Read, and be merry.
Jersey Campbell:
Mr. NYC Robert, my good friend. How goes it? I know after
our first verbal rumble I promised not to step into your arena again (for fear
of completely demolishing your will to live), but forces have compelled me to
return to the realm of dating and relationships.
I am totally against the traditional form of dating that most people practice. Part of this may be because I'm a little bitch but to me, men as the initiators in the dating arena is outdated and unnecessary. Not only that, but even when men do the initiating, they are still the ones left with the bill at the end of the night. I must be missing something here because this makes zero sense to me.
I don't want to blame women for this phenomenon because the traditional form of courtship has been practiced for centuries, but when you're struggling for equality around the world, don't you think those principles should spill over into the dating world as well?
Traditional dating practices developed into what it is today because men were the only sex able to do most of the important things in society. Women generally didn't ask men out and pay for meals because 1) they had no money and 2) daddy was picking your husband for you anyway. I don't see many arranged marriages today so why do we still believe that men should be the initiators? Women still make about 75 percent less than men but if you really want equality you should start acting like it. That's all I'm saying.
I am totally against the traditional form of dating that most people practice. Part of this may be because I'm a little bitch but to me, men as the initiators in the dating arena is outdated and unnecessary. Not only that, but even when men do the initiating, they are still the ones left with the bill at the end of the night. I must be missing something here because this makes zero sense to me.
I don't want to blame women for this phenomenon because the traditional form of courtship has been practiced for centuries, but when you're struggling for equality around the world, don't you think those principles should spill over into the dating world as well?
Traditional dating practices developed into what it is today because men were the only sex able to do most of the important things in society. Women generally didn't ask men out and pay for meals because 1) they had no money and 2) daddy was picking your husband for you anyway. I don't see many arranged marriages today so why do we still believe that men should be the initiators? Women still make about 75 percent less than men but if you really want equality you should start acting like it. That's all I'm saying.
NYC Robert:
J. Camps you’re back. I wasn’t expecting you to have such a
speedy recovery after our last debate, which you lost. I know how emotional you
can get.
Traditional dating has no affect on whether women will gain equality. It has always been the guy’s role to ask out the girl, and then the girl decides. Not much so the other way, but likely. This form of dating has been around for years and for good reason. Men are like dogs, so when they see a pretty girl they approach her before another guy does.
Women won’t look for areas such as dating for equality simply because they ultimately choose who they date. And given how every woman has standards, it’s very much set for them. If anything men should be looking at how women are choosing their men. It’s so simple for women to be gold diggers, or be set for life. Just date a guy who makes great money. However, for a guy it doesn’t work the same. Not many women who earn good or great salaries want a guy who earns less.
If you ask me seems like the playing field is in favor of women. Probably not with equality, but with dating their set, so why would they want to change it?
JC:
That's the issue! They don't want to change it and I think
we all know why. Who doesn't want other people to pay for their movie tickets,
opera tickets, restaurant bills and the like? The issue is that women say one
thing (equality) and practice another (when it comes to dating).
The ball will often be in the male's court because of traditions that have been passed down through generations. Men must be chivalrous, but that doesn't exempt the women from practicing chivalry as well. The point I am trying to make is that interactions within the dating realm must be equal. I detest all forms of inconsistency, and I'd like to think that Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton would be appalled at women who allow men to financially take control of relationships (although they probably wouldn't give a shit seeing that they were struggling for something much more pertinent).
From my ridiculously high horse, I will tell you how a typical dating scenario should play out:
Person A notices Person B at a basketball game, sitting in their seat lookin' all sexy and whatnot. After the game, person A approaches Person B with a simple, "How do you do?" They proceed to have a wonderfully engrossing conversation at which point Person A asks Person B if they would like to hang out sometime, maybe grab some dinner.
OK let's stop there. First off, if anyone is paying for the whole dinner it should be the person who asked the other to go out with them. Can we agree on that? ("Yes," says NYC Rob.) Iight cool. But before we even get to the dinner somebody has to ask somebody else to take them to dinner. That somebody asking is usually the male, meaning that if we want to be consistent with the previous statement, the male is paying for the dinner anyway. This is why it shouldn't be taboo for women to ask men out. Moving on...
If you had to guess which person was the dude and which was the gal you'd say that Person A was the dude. But why does it have to be that way?
The man's onus is never lifted in any stage of the relationship. We must be strong, we must take charge, we must open the car door for you, we must buy you jewelry, we must kill the spider in the bedroom, we must, we must, we must... Now that I'm in danger of turning this into a sexist rant against women I must stop here.
And I know I didn't really respond to anything you said, but I had to get this out before derailing your position on this topic. So I'm giving you another chance to strengthen you're arguments and somehow convince me that I'm wrong.
NYC Rob:
This seems to be getting out of hand. Before I go any
further with this debate I must ask. Are you sexist?
JC:
It looks like I'm
sexist if you think my life philosophy boils down to what I previously stated
in this friendly debate. Thank goodness that isn't the case.
Let me rephrase my stance on this not-so-important issue:
The traditional form of dating calls for the man to pay for the date because presumably it is the man taking the woman out. As a society we've outgrown these methods of dating. If you really thought about it this is actually anti-sexist. If women want to be seen as equal to men, dating is one of the areas where sacrifices have to be made. The argument for equality must be consistent in all aspects of society, not just in selective aspects that will make life easier for you.
But this doesn't only apply to "who's paying for the date?" It's much deeper than that. It applies to who initiates the interaction, who has to come out and ask the other if they want to married, who has to cook dinner, who has to wash dishes, who has to clean the house, who has to comfort and nurse the children, so on and so forth.
Admittedly, we have made strides in the "who initiates the interaction" department as well as many others. If I had to guess, there is a positive correlation between that and women becoming more equal.
So you see Mr. Rob, I am not being sexist, I'm being real. Try it out sometime. Fuck around and you might like it.
Let me rephrase my stance on this not-so-important issue:
The traditional form of dating calls for the man to pay for the date because presumably it is the man taking the woman out. As a society we've outgrown these methods of dating. If you really thought about it this is actually anti-sexist. If women want to be seen as equal to men, dating is one of the areas where sacrifices have to be made. The argument for equality must be consistent in all aspects of society, not just in selective aspects that will make life easier for you.
But this doesn't only apply to "who's paying for the date?" It's much deeper than that. It applies to who initiates the interaction, who has to come out and ask the other if they want to married, who has to cook dinner, who has to wash dishes, who has to clean the house, who has to comfort and nurse the children, so on and so forth.
Admittedly, we have made strides in the "who initiates the interaction" department as well as many others. If I had to guess, there is a positive correlation between that and women becoming more equal.
So you see Mr. Rob, I am not being sexist, I'm being real. Try it out sometime. Fuck around and you might like it.
It's a wonder you guys write for the same blog... can't wait to read the rest of the debate!
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